Comments on: US Taxpayers Pay Less Taxes Than Citizens In Other Countries.

By: KD

KD — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:36:15 +0000

2/3 of the Federal budget today is spent on benevolence, that is the forcible taking of one person’s rightful property to give to another in the name of doing good. If this happened on the street, it would be called robbery, but government has the power of legal coercion. And predictably, a lot of people are ok with this, as evidenced by many of the comments to this article, as long as they think they are receiving more in benefits than they pay in, i.e., as long as the wealth is redistributed to them in greater proportion than what is taken away. Some people may even call this form of government dependency freedom or liberty. Madison, the father of the Constitution, stood on the floor of the House one day irate with his fellow Congressmen and stated “I cannot even undertake to lay my finger on the article of the Constitution that authorizes Congress to spend the money of their constituents for the purposes of benevolence;” somehow we’ve progressed from that clear statement to the modern day perversion of the general welfare clause to justify governmental benevolence. Or as Franklin put it so succinctly: “When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” We are there. We are no longer a Republic with strict Constitutional limitations on what government can’t do. We have degenerated into a Democracy where politicians are voted into office based on the goodies they promise to redistribute to their constituents. It’s inevitable that sooner of later they will run out of other people’s money to redistribute and start coming after yours. With few enforced limitations on government, where does it all end?

By: Bucky

Bucky — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:46:50 +0000

Miranda, I was just about to remind Jake of that very section of the Constitution. That section actually allows congress to raise funds for debt, common defense and general welfare of the United States.

Most people stop reading after the word “defense” and think that is all that a government need do.

Jake, if you think that Mr. Franklin’s “liberty/security” tradeoff applies to reigning in the greedy corporate interests of today’s mega insurance companies … I’d suggest that you go back and read more of Franklin’s writingd than just a few right-wing sound bites.

I’d recommend starting with “The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin.” It’s a great read.

By: david

david — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:36:59 +0000

Amen to that Miranda. That, and they forget the “FOR the people” part of the Constitution.

By: Miranda

Miranda — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:01:32 +0000

I would have more choices if we had government health care. I wouldn’t be stuck with “in network providers”, and I wouldn’t have exclusions to my coverage. Plus, the increase in my taxes to cover the costs would be less than what I pay in insurance premiums. That sounds like an INCREASE in liberty. Besides, I think there is merit in the argument that health care falls under Article I, Section 8 as one of the things that constitutes “general Welfare”.

By: Jake Stichler

Jake Stichler — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:05:41 +0000

Annie G says: “Yes, I’d totally pay higher taxes in exchange for less fear about the future.”

Benjamin Franklin says: “Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.”

Paraphrasing, yes, but still definitely applies. More people around here need to acquaint themselves with the Constitution of the United States of America, as well as the Federalist Papers.

By: Jake Stichler

Jake Stichler — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:50:45 +0000

No, no, David, we’re not talking average rates here. Yes, that’s what’s compared above, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about federal plus every other little tax taken out of your paycheck, sales tax, gas tax, tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes (or here in PA it’s known as the 1936 Johnstown Flood Tax… look it up), property tax, etc. On top of that, things that aren’t called a tax, but really are, such as vehicle registration and driver’s license fees. It adds up, and damn quick.

By: PT Money

PT Money — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:44:07 +0000

We started a revolution and became the US because of high taxes. It makes sense that we have them low and want them lower. It’s our nature.

By: Annie G

Annie G — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:18:53 +0000

Total taxes paid in the US are approx between 20% and 37%. This includes ALL taxes (property, sales, income, payroll, etc). Don’t confuse “marginal tax rates” with actual tax rates.

And, in fact, with the current tax cuts that favor the wealthy and will soon expire, the top rate has dropped to 33% (the 20% remains virtually unchanged).

I’m definitely in the “peace of mind” group! Consider health care. Our family pays about $5k per year now, if everyone stays healthy. My husband’s job is not secure, and if we use Cobra, this amt will rise to about $17k per year (still assuming we stay healthy). Most people we know in his field who have found new jobs do not get ANY health benefits (or for the employee only, not family). With pre-existing conditions we are probably un-insurable for finding a policy on our own. That’s pretty scary stuff! Add the fact that I’m currently awaiting results on a mammogram followup after they found a mass, and my husband’s company just announced an upcoming 30% layoff.

Yes, I’d totally pay higher taxes in exchange for less fear about the future.

By: The Biz of Life

The Biz of Life — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:37:51 +0000

I’d rather pay lower taxes and receive fewer services from government. They haven’t proven they can manage other people’s money very well, and tend to muck up whatever they get involved with. No one, no matter how well intentioned, can spend my money more effectively than me. After all, nothing is free, and once a government program is implemented another class of dependents are created, and I’ve never seen a politician with enough will power to cancel a government program once created, no matter how screwed up that program might be. I’d rather endure a little personal hardship to remain nanny-free.

By: david

david — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:34:19 +0000

That’s what is being compared, Jake. Its our average rate to their average rate.

Tracy, I am with you – they get a lot there, that I wish we had here.